"What's wrong with denormalising smokers?"Deborah Arnott, ASH, CNN 31/5/2011
I see Dave was uncomfortable sitting next to that bitch.You did well dave under duress. (I was shocked when CNN phoned the office so late in the afternoon Dave, glad you were able to make it.)
I detected sympathy from the interviewer in the face of such evil. I thought Mr Hetherington did well but he was up against a polished professional liar
Loved her first piece of scientific evidence being from the wide and varied sample "Japanese housewives". She doesn't actually say which century they were living in though.And why does no-one ever bring up car fumes when she's around? That would give her something to think about or make her come out with the "they're a necessity" line, which would prove that it really isn't health she's worried about.
She slithers and slides like the most slithery, slidey snake that's ever slithered as in her attempt (failed) at trying to wrongfoot Dave on gays and ethnic minorities.She usually gets away with it because she comes across as sincere and reasonable, and unchallenged.Jay
She didn't on this, she came across as a pompous harridan. All she really did was name drop - WHO, Surgeon General, RCP(of course)- in other words, ask them! I thought Dave did well, especiallyempan to keep his cool next to that stenchShe reeks of insincerity.
She did not quite know how to describe smoking. She stuttered and then came out with 'addiction'What a sour old hag.
If you have to explain to someone what is wrong with denormalising people you are wasting your breath.
I understand she threw her toys out of the pram afterwards when in the Green Room ... a clear indication that they know that they are losing the debate as the same thing happened when Dave met Luke Clancy in Amsterdam in April.
ASH poll shows public support full smoking ban 31 January, 2006"An opinion poll published by anti-smoking group ASH reveals that 70 per cent of the public support smoke-free legislation.The poll asked 831 members of the public whether they supported a full ban rather than a partial ban based on food.An All-Party group of 10 members of the Health Select Committee, led by the chair of the Committee Kevin Barron MP, has tabled an amendment to the Health Bill that would ensure that all workplaces and enclosed public places, including all pubs and membership clubs, would be smoke-free." ASH director Deborah Arnott said: "The message to MPs could not be clearer. The public wants smoke-free legislation. They want it in England, just as they do in Scotland, Wales and in Northern Ireland."thepublican.com/story.asp?storyCode=38737Public oppose pub smoking banMonday 2nd July 2007"Only half of people in England think the ban on smoking in pubs, which came into effect yesterday, is a good idea, a survey shows.The annual British Social Attitudes survey, conducted by the National Center for Social Research, has found that 49% of its respondents believe people should be allowed to smoke freely in pubs or at least in designated smoking areas.Banning smoking in restaurants and the workplace is more popular, with 73% and 60% of respondents in favour, respectively." Researcher Mark Johnson comments: "That only around half of the public support the ban on smoking in pubs will not be good news for the government ahead of Sunday's introduction."Even worse, is that it is less popular among their traditional working class constituency."nursinginpractice.com/default.asp?title=Publicopposepubsmokingban&page=article.display&article.id=4191Still surprisingly large, until you look a little closer.Public equally split on the smoking ban29 June 2007 "the survey also found that support for the ban is much more popular among the middle classes than the working classes: 59 per cent of managers and professionals think smoking should be banned altogether in pubs, whereas only 36 per cent of people in routine and semi-routine jobs feel this way."publicservice.co.uk/news_story.asp?id=3226So now she says it's up to 80% in favour of the ban, I wonder if it's the same 831 people.Rose
Well done, Dave, if you're reading this! I don't know how he resisted the urge to strangle her on air.
"What's wrong with denormalising smokers?"The tactics adopted to enforce ‘denormalisation’ of the individual involve stigmatising, marginalizing, bullying, cajoling, humiliating, shaming, demonising, browbeating, intimidating, scaring, threatening, criminalizing, lying…etc.Debs, being somewhat on the dim side, sees nothing wrong with this Donaldson inspired strategy. In addition, neither does a professor of ethics, Vivienne Nathanson, head of ethics for the British Medical Association: "We have to start de-normalising alcohol - it is not like other types of food and drink."Why do I keep getting the feeling that all these health concerns have nothing whatsoever to do with heath but are more to do with money, i.e. Taxpayers' money and advertising fees from BigPharma for highly dangerous drugs like chantix and useless chewing gum?From earlier times, I’m reminded of the prohibitionist zealot Mary Hunt. When investigated by the Committee of Fifty in 1903 Hunt was found to be a fraud and a crook who set-up a secret charity to stash bribes and royalties obtained from publishers etc. (V.G.I.F.) Anonymous said...If you have to explain to someone what is wrong with denormalising people you are wasting your breath.I'm sorry A but if a professor doesn't understand it then we need to point out at every possible occasion the full list of the odious tactics used by these creeps.
Am I the only one who thinks that the root of all Ms Arnott’s acidic anti-smoking self-righteousness looks increasingly like the respectable cover for a woman who simply needs a Damned Good Rogering? Will some brave chap please give her a good seeing-to, and give us all a break! Paper bag freely supplied on request …….
Gerard,I am pretty sure the Professor does understand it, she simply doesn't give a jot. Just because you have a qualification or job title that includes the word ethics does not mean that you have to believe in or practice ethics. She probably believes that supporting denormalisation is the ethical thing to do, "for the greater good and all that". Isn't one of the scenarios in ethics about allowing someone to die or suffer to save the many or some such variation on that theme? I am sure she can moralise her position and is 100% convinced she is correct. Therefore any attempt to change her mind is indeed a waste of breath. Collectivism is dangerous to my health.
Hi guys, I hope you clicked the follow up button. Thanks for your kind comments and a special thanks to the Big Yin for organising my appearance. I will post the inside gossip tomorrow.
Okay I'm a smoker, but I actually think Dave came across better, Its amazing how weak ASH sound when they are challenged..Its a good point about gay and ethnic minorities, but there was a fumble on the words.Hopefully we'll start seeing a counter-view presented when Ms Arnott gets on the telly.Really good to see though.
Lots of appeals to authority there by Arnott. The WHO. The RCP. Etc, etc.Important, well-qualified people think this way, and so must you.
"Lots of appeals to authority there by Arnott. The WHO. The RCP. Etc, etc"Yep, of the 'bail me out' variety. stupid bag was in above her head when DA started to mention reports and surveys. That's obviously the weak point.
I was surprised when 'the bitch' brought up the old Japanese survey as it has been poured over by academics and soundly rebuffed.Dave @00@:34, that is my job and thankfully I had you to turn to when I got a call out of the blue from well known news sources.These things come out of nowhere, when I get a call from journalists or their PA, having your phone number to direct them to is a bonus.The fact of these things is that you are never given time to prepare and you are good, but new at it, 'the bitch' is not. You came over the most sincere and gave a more robust argument in the time given.I don't think the interviewer was bias particularly but did notice that he, in the end, talked about the smell of tobacco smoke, despite Arnott's protestations that SHS causes cancer in the non smoker. That's what all, and I mean all, the anti smoking groups end up saying when they are challenged about their 'studies'. It's the smell they don't like so the will stick like glue to anything that 'they think' says aotherwise. It's the fuckin' smell these people don't like so ban the sources of THAT smell, not that smell, just the smell of tobacco, they hate it...and Alcohol...and Beef Burgers...Where does it all end?
I think she should stick to radio...Hope Dave gets invited onto other slots in the future.Jay
So far Jay they, infrequently I may add, only ask if there is anyone who can speak on behalf of F2C on a subject that hits the headlines, like the recent 'smoking in parks' ban in NY. When it comes to the general workings of the ban, and any opposition against it, then they always refert to the Ms Arnott's of this world but as they start to 'flex their muscles' with other ban ideas then you will be seeing, and hearing, of Dave and F2C more often, that's a promise rather than a hope.
Good to see F2C's hard work paying off, John.Jay
Jay F2C's work is never done and never will be until this ban is overturned or, at least, amended. When it is overturned or amended then we will have to tackle other major miscarriage of justice laws when they come in, like the impending laws denormalising drinkers and people that eat the food deemed 'wrong' by vested interested groups.The war has only begun and it wont be over by Christmas, that's for sure. But we need fighters, not appeasers.
I thought Dave Atherton was brilliant.Its a shame there was such limited time for this. Smokers are treated like second class citizens. We are denied an indoor space, in any public building and are left to sit or stand outside exposed to the bad weather. If any other minority were treated like this, their would be a public outcry.ONS Survey's confirm that when asked in 2005,2006 and 2007 that around 68% of those questioned, preferred to have a choice of indoor areas for adults. Restrictions not a total indoor smoking ban that we have now.From 2008 the question about giving adults choice was withdrawn.
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