Tuesday 20 November 2012

An HMRC 'Wise Guy' Calls

The oddest thing happened this morning.

Sitting at my desk, some woman just wandered in through our warehouse and asked to talk to a director. I replied that I'm one so how can I help. She tersely declared that she works for HMRC and demanded a payment of £15,000 for overdue corporation tax.

I was taken aback for a moment as she looked about 60 and was dressed in jeans and a sweat shirt - it's not the kind of thing one would expect her to come out with.

As it happened, the people who deal with our accounts were both at a funeral at the time, so I said I'd have to talk to them first. She, however, insisted that as I was a director I would be able to sign a cheque right there and then. Of course I could, but there was no way I would even consider doing that, especially for someone who just breezes in arrogantly from the street.

She fixed me with a surprised glare (perhaps for not shitting myself when faced with a rep of the government, I dunno), before handing me her card and telling me all the nasty things that might happen if it's not paid in the next week. Now, I've often said that tax is effectively extortion with menaces, but I've never seen it illustrated in such a blatant manner.

On later talking to our credit controller, she said that we'd paid a huge amount up front and were just waiting for some communication of the balance due before settling it - that's what one would expect from a government agency, after all. However, we'd not received a single letter or phone call to tell us what we were supposed to pay. Wouldn't it have been much more professional - and less costly in time and, therefore, money - to ring or write rather than sending some late middle-ager round to ask for a cheque out of the blue?

And when did employing similar intimidatory methods to 1930s mafia protection racketeers become an acceptable state policy?

UPDATE: By coincidence, Ken Frost has today provided another example of eager HMRC debt collectors turning up unannounced and demanding cash.


24 comments:

WitteringsfromWitney said...

Similar to an experience I had DP, during the summer 3 years ago. There I was trying to enjoy, on a garden bench, the required '40' after my lunch and a scotch when HMRC appeared demanding £5k+ in 'back taxes'. When she left after a few minutes she did so carrying more than she arrived with as she now had a 'flea in her ear'. Needless to say nothing further heard since.

Phil Johnson said...

Just typical of the bullyboy/girl arrogance these people hold for us humble serfs. Perhaps you would have been better served by telling the creature "I have already explained where our accounts people are so why do you not take a stroll there and frig thyselg furiously en route?"
At least you'd have had some satisfaction watching her smug boat change! :)

SteveW said...

It's always been state policy and it's never been acceptable, however; they don't let simple niceties like that get in the way.

Dick_Puddlecote said...

This person wasn't treated to my most polite of tones, either WfW. ;)

Dick_Puddlecote said...

Haha, I've not heard that particular way of 'showing the door' before.

Dick_Puddlecote said...

We must be too good at paying taxes if we've not been visited up till now, then. I'll have a stern word with our accounts bunnies.

SadButMadLad said...

Wow, you've just given me a great idea for a scam. Just walk into any company and demand their tax payments. The state that the country is in at the moment with everyone saying that companies aren't paying their fair share of corporation tax, I wouldn't be surprised if it scares companies into paying otherwise they might expect a mob of the UKUNCUT unwashed to turn up.

S Limy said...

You handled it all wrong, upon being informed that you owed 15k the correct response is to offfer to take her to lunch to discuss the matter further and at the end of the meal you'll have 2 bills, £20 for the lunch and £1,500 as a revised tax bill.


I recently paid my corporation tax, it was 3 months late but that was because I couldn't pay it without a 275 digit reference code which I didn't have. I tried to call them on numerous occasions but there is no queue system and every time I tried it was engaged so I gave up. Eventually they sent a reminder with the aforementioned reference.

Ian R Thorpe said...

YOU MUST NEVER QUESTION AUTHORITY

Jay said...

Perhaps this matter has a bit to do with HMRC showing up on your doorstep: http://delano.lu/news/refund-corporate-tax-says-ecj

OH! said...

Wouldn't it have been much more professional - and
less costly in time and, therefore, money - to ring or write rather than
sending some late middle-ager round to ask for a cheque out of the blue?


We’re just never happy. DP, that was “personalized” service.
Why call or write when a darling rep of Tax ‘Я Us can surprise you at work….. bring a little face-to-face “thrill” into your life…… mix with the taxpaying
riff-raff. If she had the “casual” look (and not carrying a firearm), then she’d
probably taken the advanced Tax Office 5-day, taxpayer-funded courses of “How To Collect Taxes With A Festive Disposition” and “How To Stop The Surprise in A Surprise Visit Just Short Of The Taxpayer Having A Coronary”.

Tax ‘R Us should be applauded for their social responsibility.

MisanthropeGirl said...

Did you ask (and get) to see any ID, Dick? If not, I might suspect that SMBL is behind the curve here...

Dick_Puddlecote said...

Jawohl!

Dick_Puddlecote said...

Oh I see. How rude of me. ;)

Dr Evil said...

This is what happens when you give tax accountants the same powers as Customs & Excise. They become power crazed little Hitlers.

Dick_Puddlecote said...

Yeah, she pulled something laminated out of her pocket and vaguely waved it around. I didn't bother looking though as there was no way she was getting a red cent.

Dick_Puddlecote said...

Nah, I think it's just that Gordon Brown left the state utterly skint.


... though that article you link to can't help them much. {heart bleeds}

OH! said...

I think there was some sort of “study” that demonstrated
that the public craved for more one-on-one, in-the-field contact with tax
agents…… and their pets (e.g., Rottweiler)…. that can thoroughly and with great empathy explain the tax-payer’s (extortee) predicament and life-saving options.

moonrakin said...

Ha! - you haven't even got to the left hand right hand bit yet.


A friend of mine negotiated a bill with a HMRC office and arranged for staged payments (all still running and paid as agreed - all fully documented)


Another office has "discovered" that the entire amount hasn't been paid and issued a fine, coupled to dire warnings escalating over a couple of iterations so far - and won't acknowledge the staged payment arrangement.


He contacted original HMRC office and said "I thought we had an agreement - what's going on here ?" - their response "pay the fines and then appeal them ...."


Not winning any friends with this sort of malarkey I think.

Dick_Puddlecote said...

Actually, we had something similar a couple of years ago. I didn't know at the time of the visit, but it turns out this has happened before. Someone (a woman, maybe even the same one) just walked in and asked for £2.5k on that occasion. Our credit controller paid it, but continued receiving tax demands. It took a long time to sort it all out involving many phone cals, e-mails and letters between us and them.


Turns out the cheque they gave to the HMRC woman never reached HMRC and was never cashed. Hopeless.

moonrakin said...

My pal who's a fairly law abiding sort is developing some attitude on this one. The demands have not ceased and neither have the coupled threats and he looks to be intent on making a point...


It'll probably fizzle out - but if it doesn't it could be entertaining.... He's tried (and documented) getting the two offices to communicate and failed....

JuliaM said...

"And when did employing similar intimidatory methods to 1930s mafia protection racketeers become an acceptable state policy?"


When HMC&E merged with the Inland Revenue to create the Frankensteinian monster that is HMRC.


Oh, sorry. That's maligning Dr Frankenstein. It was, of course, a Brown idea.

Rob said...

They are unbelievably incompetent, plus nasty and arrogant to boot. I cheer every victory against them reported in the paper. Fuck 'em.

Marcus Sulley said...

Interesting discussion. Apologies for hi-jacking this blog but looking for people with interesting stories and experiences of HMRC to talk to with regard to a documentary series we're doing. All off the record. Apologies again for butting in. Marcus (07930-334-391)